Law Enforcement - shooting the gun in a perp's hand?:
If a sniper tries to shoot the weapon out of a hostage takers hand, there are several possible outcomes:
1) The gun is hit, and the hostage taker is overwhelmed by SWAT-people and nobody gets hurt big time. Not very likely.
2) The gun is hit, but due to the impact the gun fires and the hostage or a third party is hurt big time. Possible.
3) The rifle bullet hits the hand of the criminal, passes through bone and flehs and carries on at around 2300 fps and may hit somebody else. Also the criminal can still shoot wth the other hand. Very possible.
4) The sniper misses the hand ans criminal totally, but the passing bullet and sonic boom of it causes unvoluntary reflection in the criminal, his gun goes bang and the situation ends in full shoot out. This outcome most probably has happened many times.
I think that the threat to hostages and third parties are too big, when a sniper tries to shoot the gun out of a criminals hand. Therefore this method should never be an official tactic. A sniper may choose to use it, but only if he really knows how to do it. In the end he must live with the consuquences. Last but not least, if somebody is so big threat that he can be shot legally, then the sniper should try to maximize his stopping power and aim to more effective body parts than a weapon or hand.
Helsinki, Finland - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 08:35:34 (EST)
Several years ago in Columbus, Ohio there was a shot fired to disable a firearm. If memory serves me, the guy was sitting on the Statehouse or courthouse lawn in a folding chair. The handgun (looked like a snub) was held in front of him dangling between his legs. At the shot (from about 75 yds), the handgun scattered into many pieces and stung the man's hand. In an interview afterwards, either the sniper, or another sniper said that they routinely shoot .308 casings at 100 yds.
The next time that I was at the 100 yard range, I placed three 308 cases on a 100 yd. target frame. I was in the process of perfecting loads in a 6mm Rem 40-X in a Zelenak aluminum stock. Three shots later……. I was able to recover two of the cases neatly perforated. Still have them. It was a bum custom barrel which never shot better than ¾" groups, so it was just a lucky 3-shot group.
Ron N. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 16:57:23 (EST)
I have held off commenting on the shooting guns out of perps hands. Hexa had some very good points. I have found the energy up to partake in this.
First and most obvious question is why would a LE sniper want to shoot a gun out of someones hand? I suppose we could argue back and forth about flacid paralysis not being a sure thing. But you can say the same thing for the fact that the gun might still go off or the sniper might miss (ala hexa's remarks). Bottom line is you still have a maggot hostage taker that will now sue your ass, eat up some correctional facilities budget and probably get out and pull this type of shit again. You have a victim who has to live with the fact that the hostage taker is still out there somewhere maybe seeking revenge or continuing the episode at a later date.
I can group very good on a stationary target, on a firing range when I have control of most everything. But what is the liklihood that I will lose a little group tightener under stress or the gun will move just as I shoot. Pretty good I think.
Men, "In my opinion" don't even entertain this subject if you are a cop. Train for it and leave it in your bag of tricks but don't ever let on to a supervisor that this is an option available to him. Besides, I wonder how many of these incidents were accidental that the sniper involved took credit for as being intentional? Hey it looks good in the press right?
Stick with the high percentage shots. Mark Maguire hit a shit load of homers but how many times did he strike out? Murphy is alive and well. I know. I've met him and his son!
USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 18:53:49 (EST)
Mostly what I want to say (make that scream!!) is...."ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR F--KING MIND???" For reasons that have already been stated chances for an major "F--k Up" are just too great.
Now that I have that out of my system I can think of a few times when a stunt like this might (that's MIGHT) be worth the risk. Recently I have seen several situations when police were confronted with a mentally disturbed or emotionally distraught individual who was a threat to others only in that they had a weapon that in there confused state might discharge and harm someone. I don't think I care if they happen to shoot themselves but as a law enforcement officer I worry about anyone else within range of their weapon. Some of these individules think thay want to commit suiside but want someone else (a cop) to do it for them. I'm not in this buisness to kill people (even if I am prepared to) and all the backlash (personal, profesional and legal) from an action like that could be overwelming.
So...If, under the circumstances described above, a shot could be taken that would have an almost perfect chance of success, where there was no chance of harm to anyone else (IE: where is the shot going after it strikes the gun?) and there is no other reasonable or likely safe solution then I would consider taking that shot....BUT....I still wouldn't like it!
Depity Dave <email@example.com>
Finelly Thawing Out in, Snow Crusted West Virginia USA - Saturday, January 09, 1999 at 11:26:16 (EST)
USA - Saturday, January 09, 1999 at 14:12:49 (EST)
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