Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom

Ghillie Suits - Making Your Own:

What is best to make a ghillie suit out of? BDU's or flight jump suit?

D. West
USA - Sunday, September 27, 1998 at 00:53:23 (EDT)

Ghillie suits are best made using a two piece uniform.

Gooch out.

gooch <>
Sherwood, Ar USA - Sunday, September 27, 1998 at 14:57:08 (EDT)

I'am in the process of making a ghillie suit for "Stalking" and was wondering if I need to
put canvas on the knees and on the front of the jacket?? I put padding in the knees and in
the elbows but I've heard both pro and con on putting the heavy material on the front.
Some say its not necessary and makes the suit harder to roll up and that you dont crawl
that far to wear out the double padding anyway. If I have to use canvas would an old sea
bag work and what is the best way to put it on?? How much color variation should I put
into the suit?? I hunt prarrie so my hunting suit is pretty much just a dead grass color with
a touch of lite green here and there and as I said this one will be used differently. Thanks
for the help!!

Pat <>
USA - Monday, September 28, 1998 at 12:59:55 (EDT)

Pat: I'll let Gooch or Rick give you the Correct Answer. I'll just toss in my two cents
worth for grins. If you aren't going to actually cralw a lot, don't bother with the canvas.
Then again, if you crawl at all, Just as Basso about his elbows. I know were beat all to heck
with out the extra padding.

Scott <>
Spidertown, arracniphobia Webworld - Monday, September 28, 1998 at 14:03:49 (EDT)

Pat - Leave the blankity blank canvas off of the ghillie. It is a waste of material. If you are
in an area that will require crawling then use elbow and knee pads. That canvas will over
heat you, make noise that any ground animal can hear, to include deaf old farts like myself.
Use an old field jacket with the liner cut out. That materail is tough enough for most
crawls, excluding shale rock and the like. Seriously, with canvas sewn on the front, when
you walk or crawl on all fours the noise and discomfort is a real distractor. If you want to
use canvas, use a canvas of lighter weight than the sea bag (I am ASS-uming that the sea
bag material is similar to the duffel bag material). Find an old GP medium tent and attack
with a pair of scissors.

Rick <>
Fayetteville, NC USA - Monday, September 28, 1998 at 22:43:45 (EDT)

Mr. Bulllet - On the subject of reinforcing the front of a ghillie suit, all I can say is that
I've had ghillies with reinforcement and without it. It really depends what you are doing
with it.

When I first started building ghillies hardly anyone put stuff on the front. But back in those
days (1980 or so) our BDU's were made of thin ripstop cotton without the extra layer on
the knees and elbows that we have now. After 5-6 school stalks the things were a mess.
Most school stalks require the students to do a lot of crawling (at least at the schools I
worked at/went through). This resulted in a lot of students going to the canvas. (This
ended up with snipers schools being real unpopular with the motor transport types.
Students were doing midnight raids on the duece and a half canvas tops!) Now with the
BDU's having reinforced knees and elbows it may be redundent.

BUT! If I was building a ghillie to varmit hunt in or to use as a cop I would go ahead and
insert the padding into the BDU knee/elbow reinforcement. This is because in these two
instances you will not need to hump as much shit as an infantry guy on extended operations
and can afford a little more bulk and roof tops, gravel driveways, rocks etc. can be a pain.
Use thin padding such as the vinyl car roof padding I have talked about before. I would
then have the bottom jacket pockets moved to the side and the top pockets moved to the
shoulders for accessability while prone then have codura nylon sewn over the front of the
pants/top and elbows. I like the codura because it is much more durable, slicker and dries
faster than canvas. It can also be found in camo patterns that match the BDU material.

Gooch out.
gooch <>
Sherwood, AR USA - Tuesday, September 29, 1998 at 11:17:56 (EDT)

Did anyone else cach a program last night on the Discovery channel
called Science of the gun? It was a documentary on how the Army conducts its sniper training school at Ft. Benning. They took you thru the whole course, as well as interviews with Burl Branham of the AMTU and also interviews with Chuck Mawhinney.
It appears that the instructors at Ft. Benning are an unenlightened bunch and have never read the Duty Roster with regards to what makes a good Ghille suite. These instructors paint all offending students with orange spray paint whenever they feel that the student has not applied enough burlap to their costumes. Lots of orange paint was applied to the chest and stomach area...
Personally, I think that the whole Ghille business was a mean spirited joke played upon us by some Scottish gameskeepers as payback for the way we make fun of those girly skirts that they wear.

Steve <>
S.C.D.H., Ohio USA - Thursday, November 05, 1998 at 19:09:07 (EST) 

TO: Steve "nato"

RE: Discovery Channel Sniper School coverage

Yes, I saw that bit of footage regarding the Army's Sniper School, and I too found that spray paint thing a little curious, not that they used it, but where they used it! (All over the front of the suits!) That stress shoot they did looked a little funky too, where the shooters had to shoot through a bank of thick smoke with all the usual noise of rounds going off, etc. Anyway, it was a pretty good look at a military sniper school's training regime. The scariest part was looking at the babyfaces of the chilluns that were graduating from the school. Babes At Arms. They were KIDS. Guess we all were once.

Scott (T.O.O.)
PA USA - Thursday, November 05, 1998 at 20:30:16 (EST) 

Ft. Benning and its dreaded orange spray paint.

When I was preparing to go through Benning in '96 (Since the fricking Army doesn't recognize the USMC MOS) I had a buddy warn me about the spray paint deal. I replied that sounded too stupid and that they couldn't still be doing that.

Well big as shit during the first ghillie suit inspection "rattle, rattle, rattle" "what the f$??" If you had a spot larger than a fist they will nail you and if your glue job on the front canvas (which must be double layer on the knees and elbows they will spray it too. Talk about stupid.

I was so pissed I couldn't stand it. But being a National Guard guy I had to keep my mouth shut as a Guard guy will be sent home for breathing through the wrong nostril. So I just went along with the program and ghillied up like a chewbacka. They spent more time sweating ghillies than they did teaching to read the wind.

Gooch <>
USA - Thursday, November 05, 1998 at 22:09:12 (EST) 

On orange paint and Ghillie Suits - I have no idea who started that crap, but it has been going on since the beginning of that school back in 87. We were in awe when we first heard about it and I called down thinking it was a nasty rumor. They said it was the "best way" to insure the students correted their problems. I asked what type of problems and when they told me how much of a Burlap wad of junk they wanted, I almost cried. They are teaching the Ghillie (or burlap srting monster) Suit wrong. They have yet to understand that a Ghillie ONLY aids in blending. Burlap looks like burlap, not grass, not trees, only burlap. Burlap breaks the outline, natural camo blends the sniper into the surronding terrain. You still have to worry and work on the other "Reasons Why Things Are Seen". And I'm glad a bunch of you guys realized that fact. And yes, as we get older they get younger "looking". Amazing isn't it! I have to remind myself of that every day of a course.

Rick <>
Fayetteville, NC USA - Thursday, November 05, 1998 at 23:43:22 (EST) 

To darkeagle who was inquiring reference Ghillie suits. Theres a guy out in NM, named Andy Brandy at (505) 473 3815, he is former Marine (recon) and makes a good suit. Our company has used him numerous times. Tried to email this to you, but you must have entered a improper addy, cause it won't work.

Mike Flynn

Mike Flynn <>
USA - Monday, December 07, 1998 at 15:26:43 (EST) 

Re: Pre-fab Ghillie suits.

Men as a contributor to this site I find it my duty to advise you that if you are considering buying a prefab ghillie that you are blowing good money if you pay over 200.00 bucks on one. I have seen these things go for as high as 700 fricking dollars! Men, I am in the civilian firearms buisness now too, but I call for all of my buddies to drill me through the cranium if I ever start screwing people like that!! I'm not saying that the former Marine mentioned on here is doing this but I have seen the suits go for the above price. Spend the money on more ammo or ......take that extra "I just want to throw away money" money and make a contribution to "The Gooch Fund" c/o Storm Mountain Training Center, Elk Garden WV.

Men, I promise that soon I will throw together a piece for this site which will tell you how to build one version of this critter. It takes some work and a sewing machine or an upholstery shop will help, but you can build your own for around 200.00 or less. 99% of us that have done this shit in the military have built our own. Some guys (usually sailors:-)) want to avoid the stay up all night, wait til the last minute before the first stalk, hating life, needle and thread/shoe-goo ritual, but the rest of us real men go through it.

gooch <>
USA - Monday, December 07, 1998 at 23:17:59 (EST) 

Ghillie Suits. Why spend money on something you can make yourself. It is not a beauty contest. Take a one or two piece woodland outfit. Sew 1" netting (Cheap Hamock from WalMart) to back including arms and legs. Allow about 20" to flop over and cover your head and scope, or make a seperate piece for Boonie that draps over scope and down back. Take burlap, either the one sided camo from WalMart or the stuff already on a roll, cut at 12" strips and tie to netting. Strip the burlap apart so it frays up and looks like hair. Spray paint it to match your area of opperation. Remember no even lines. Sew Cordura to front belly, knees and elbow ares. You can pad this with sleeping mat foam. If you can not sew at all use Shoe Goo to glue on. The whole thing can be done alittle at a time and add up to about 40 hours. If you buy one made you will still end up camo painting it to your area and learning to do repairs. When you are all done spray it with a Flame Retardent.
Calif USA - Tuesday, December 08, 1998 at 21:25:52 (EST) 
Hell, I often think that the ghillie itself is a viscious joke that the Scotts have been laughing hystericaly about behind their kilts since WWI. But that is another piece of heresy for another day.
Ed Engler <>
CP Greaves, ROK - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 05:19:24 (EST) 
Re: Ghillies, It might help to remember that the ghillie was used by the GAME WARDENS to interdict poachers and was primarily used in a static position. That being said.....the military used it in a different manner and some parts of the military have overdone it. If possible get some of the military camo netting and try working just with it. It's lighter and even though its not the "thing" for everywhere, it can help.

Will <>
USA - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 13:40:16 (EST) 


Ghillie Cleaning...

Okay roster hogs... whadaya do for cleaning your ghillie? I have one of the KUSA ghillie suits - which is pretty much a fairly well burlapped cammo top and a separately burlapped cammo bottom.

I ran each piece separately thru the washer (on gentle cycle). Then put each piece in the dryer on a medium heat. It came out pretty good - slightly fluffy (fluff man - eh?). Quite abit of fur in the dryer filter. I was sure that this process would tie all that burlap into knots...
Thing is - now it smells too good... all someone has to do is catch a whiff of 'downy' or 'bounce' blowing down wind :)

Ken <>
Nokesvillle, Va, USA - Monday, August 07, 2000 at 01:04:02 (ZULU) (your host address:

Ken - Try using the delicate bag that the woman of the house uses for her panty hose and other delicates, that keeps down the fuzz and saves marriages, just don't use hers. I am surprised you didn't get any tangles though, I always get some but then a good pair of scissors takes care of that problem. Smell, wear it in the woods and roll roll roll like a dog! Also adds some nice natrual as well. :)

Rick <>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, August 07, 2000 at 01:37:01 (ZULU) (your host address:

Hello everyone,
My ghillie needs some renovation in some wear areas. Does anyone have a source for different types of material? I had been using jute burlap with some undyed canvas thrown in here and there, but would like something that "flows" a little better. I'm quite attached to my old ghillie (and don't want to "break in" a new one), so I'd like some ideas on materials. All of my old buddies are out of the Corps or have taken less troublesome MOS's (Family life and such) so I'd like a civilian source. The women at the "Yard Barn" always give me a funny look. Thanks for your help.


Charles Hopkins <>
Orange Park, Fl,, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 01:10:09 (ZULU) (your host address:

Well Chuck,

Your ghillie sounds as ratty as mine, you are right about the funny looks that you get from the fabric store ladies. I shook down one of the army/navy stores in town, they got me some rolls of 2" wide O.D. and tan burlap. The problem that I had was I had patches of minty fresh burlap surrounded with the old, tired stuff. All I had to do was abuse one of the local laundry-mats far, far from my house ( as not to be recognized by the management) It turned out really good after a spin on a Gentle cycle.

For materials, also try farmers markets, sometimes they have burlap sacks that they will part with.

Kush <>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 02:32:47 (ZULU) (your host address:

Burlap searchers! Try your local feed and grain stores and also plant nurseries and landscapers. Some fish wholesalers down towards the coast has burlap also. Course may attract every cat in the neighborhood.

Anybody ever tried Night Desert cammies for ghillie suit? Will let you know how they look when I get done, hopefully this century.

One the dimensions of sniper veil. Well all I did was take the ex's bridal train and died it cammo. Looks kinda sheek shimming around in the woods.

Bolt <>
USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 03:13:33 (ZULU) (your host address:

If you are looking for Burlap, try your local Walmart's fabric section. They usually got it in several different colors, but I just use the "Natural" color, and dye it. For just a jacket/veil combo, it will take about 4 yards of burlap. They also sell Rit Dye so you can get just the right color for your area.
In their sporting goods section they usually have some realtree camo blind material that I dye green, and then cut into different shapes, and add it to the jacket and veil.

Bill B <>
ky, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 12:56:11 (ZULU) (your host address:

I also found most of the stuff for my under construction Ghillie at Wally World. + paint and stencils. CHEAP!
A local gunstore had Advantage RealTree burlap for about 5 bucks per yard x 54" wide (approx.) Two fabric shades light and dark.

LEARNING THE ZEN OF GRASS SEEDING, BYGAWD, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 13:46:04 (ZULU) (your host address:

Hey guys,
Has anyone used Camo'd burlap? I saw some at Wal-mart last night also. I'm looking in my Cabela's catalog now and they have 4 or 5 different patterns, all in 54" x 16' rolls. Does anyone have any preferences? Any ones that don't work well? Some of them look awfully dark. I have an old set of Cami trousers (sun-dyed in Oki) that I was thinking about shredding and throwing in here and there. Has anyone done this and had it look OK? Thanks for your help, I think I'll pass on the fish-market burlap. If I wanted my ghillie to smell like fish I'd let my girl-freind wear it!!!

Charles Hopkins <>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 14:26:58 (ZULU) (your host address:

Burlap: Usually you can buy different camo patterns in 3 foot wide lenghts cut from large spools at sporting goods stores that are big into quality bow hunting items. This way you can cut strips to any desired length.

For those that don't want to spend the time making a ghillie, Custom Concealment offers a large selection from basic hunting up to heavy duty military quality. All you need is to fray the burlap, trim it here and there, then spray paint it for the terrain, tie it to your bumper and drive around a little with it and you have a ghillie that is just as good if not better than one you could construct. As far as natural camo goes, break trail through heavy brush and you'll have all the natural camo you need sticking to your ghillie. This is providing sound is not an issue. I use their light military version.
TonyY <>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 14:46:43 (ZULU) (your host address:

I gathered that I'm not supposed to be making "little patches of color" in my ghillie, but rather larger areas of all the same color. So how large is large? I would think that something along the lines of a ragged quarter of the suit would be TOO big, but I dunno. HELP?!
Bravo <>
Bravo Brew - the unofficial beer of Sniper Country, USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 14:58:42 (ZULU) (your host address:
Gooch, thanks for the poop on the Ghillie colors. I have some other ideas for you to take a peek at and give comment.

Am considering using 3 different net/burlap combos for three seasons. I am going to sew paracord loops on the base so that I can switch nets quickly. Just trying to figure way to secure to base properly.

Next thing. Going to sew "adequate and generous belly, knee and elbow pads in both my suits. Getting too old to get the appendages and the belly beat up. Probably going to cut up a sleeping mat.

Next thing. Thinking about using a Camelback Mule as belt and suspenders sewed on to the pants. I have one suit that the guy custom sewed a bladder/suspender combination onto the bottoms and it really looks neat.
Have thought about sewing two 70 oz. bladder pockets on a custom suspender on the bottoms that will have the bladders on both sides of the the suit under the arms. Will eliminate a hump on the back.

Next. I hate thumb loops, cuts thumb or makes them go to sleep. Thinking of sewing cammo cottom gloves onto the sleeves in place of the loops.

Most definitely going to sew leg zippers in.

I am not sure about hoods versus boonie hats for head cover. I guess both have their place but I am concerned about both pulling off when going under brush. Any suggestions?

Bolt <>
USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 21:03:14 (ZULU) (your host address:

Bolt, if your talking about using military sleeping mat as pads on your suit - be careful. I tried it. Yes, it did provide great protection but it was far too stiff and rigid to allow proper movement. Plus you still get a bunch of chafing.

Next time I'm thinking of using volleyball pads that slip on over your legs and arms under a ghillie. I may try to keep them "fixed" and prevent any slipping with some kind of tape. (Not the kind that will pull of every hair on my body - hopefully.)
CCaspers <>
USA - Friday, August 11, 2000 at 23:29:09 (ZULU) (your host address:

Ghillie Burlap...Wal-mart Garden center has a large roll of the stuff for about 6 bucks. and it is better quality than the cammo stuff you find over in sporting goods.
Cory <>
Florida, USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 05:28:34 (ZULU) (your host address:
'Wing Supply' sell camo burlap, netting and such. I haven't bought from them in a while so they seem to have stopped sending me catalogs. Someone out there who gets the catalog please post contact info.

CDC <>
USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 05:50:22 (ZULU) (your host address:

Bolt: You've got some really good idea's on ghillie construction. You might want to consider the following:

I recently saw some marine ghillies that used detachable netting panels. They had different panels ready to go for different terrain. It was more of a modular system that used a primary base uniform. Not rocket science, but an idea that I had never thought of over the course of six different ghillie constructions! The panels on the one I saw were attached with small fastex buckles.

A note on pads. I've tried the volleyball type (under the uniform) that cut off the circulation and the hard-shell entry type (over the uniform)that screw up a good prone shooting position. They both help on a stalk but have very serious drawbacks. I recently saw (see above) some high-speed dudes from Singapore that were wearing pads by RollerBlade. The attachment was velcro straps but there were no hard outer shells. The best of both worlds? I haven't tried them yet, but intend to. Consider it before throwing down cash on something that just looks cool. Speaking of looks, you might want to get rid of the big, shoot me please, reflective Rollerblade logo. They hadn't. WTF?!

SSG Maries/ 2-162 INF/ ORARNG <>
OR, USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 05:56:08 (ZULU) (your host address:

On Ghillies, I have come up with something that I was going to show at SMTC this year but since I wont make it I will share it here. I took Swiss Sniper veils(four). Sewed one to the back of a BDU shirt. I split two9four halves) and attached them to the legs and arms of BDUs. The arms attach at the back sewn in veil and around the arms with elastic/fastex buckles so they come off. The legs fastex to the belt and around the legs with elastic/fastex. The head veil is attached to the back sewn on with fastex buckles. The five parts can be put on and taken off in seconds, leaving only the back part sewn to the bdu. This also has a Camel Back pouch. The great thing about the swiss veils is they are cotton fine mesh so they do not make noise or snag on everything in the world. I sewed a few pieces of para cord so I can tie in natural camo

Delta Bravo/Undude
MikeMiller <>
Calif, USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 07:04:04 (ZULU) (your host address:


Went to WalMart last night, and they have burlap available by the yard. ( $1.48/yd )They had only threee colors, natural, white, and tan. In the past they had dark brown, and dark Green as well. I only buy the natural stuff, and dye it with Rit Dye.

Bill B <>
ky, USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 13:50:42 (ZULU) (your host address:

GHillie padding. DOnt bother padding anything other than the knees and elbows and maybe thin padding in the pocket of the shoulder (as in a shooting jacket). REINFORCE the belly with codura nylon from the area just above the breast pockets (name tape area on military BDU's) to just below the knees (mid tibia) as well as the elbows.

You are not padding the thing with the intent of being super comfortable whilst stalking. Its IMPOSSIBLE to do that. What you are padding for is to keep your knees and elbows from disintegrating. They will still chafe and get red/raw etc. Its part of the job and you learn to deal with it.

Anything that binds your elbows and knees will increase your pusle beat in those areas and are counter-productive to shooting plus elastic pads will cause sweat to pool up under there and make the booboos worse. The hard roller blade pads will slip around, which is again counter-productive to shooting. After a period of time you will get some manly calluses in these areas and things get better. Make sure to treat your little raw spots with antibiotic creams and the like or they can get real nasty.

I have found that the best method for padding knees and elbows is to diddy bop down to a auto upolstery shop get some of the padding they use for doing vinyl roofs (its closed cell, flexible and about 1/4" thick) insert it in between the reinforcing that is present in the military bdu's knees and elbows and call it quits. I used a sleeping pad on my last ghillie and it works okay but I have seen guys use the upholstery shit and it is great. While hunting one year I tripped and fell on a boulder behind my house up here in west by gawd. I had my ghillie trousers on and when my knees impacted on the rock it was cushy. If I was still active duty I would put the auto upholstery padding in all of my field bdu's and rig up velcro so I could take the pads out to wash them.

Codura is the way to go for the front. It is low friction when doing the low crawl, is water repellant and you can get it in almost all of the military camouflage patterns. If anyone can find it in chocolate chip desert let me know. I used old nylon sea bags on my last one and it worked great since the sea bags are pretty much water proof (kept the treated side inboard by the way).

Out here.
Gooch <>
USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 15:21:50 (ZULU) (your host address:

'Wing Supply' (1-800-388-9464) sells all kinds of camo material for duck and varmint hunters.
CDC <>
USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 15:41:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
Is there some difference between the burlap rope and the burlap cloth once it's shredded? Or is it all the same? Gots PLENTY of burlap colored twine / yarn / rope whatever you call it to shred, but I can put burlap cloth in there too if it'll help. Not looking for woolybuggar time though.
Bravo <>
the virtually dry state - GAH!, USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 15:44:40 (ZULU) (your host address:

Ghilly suspenders !

I canned my elastic suspenders after my first stalk with a fully loaded suit. The pants end up around your knees, if they don´t now they sure will once it rains.

I went down to the auto salvage yard and cut myself some seat belts sewed them onto the rear of the pants first, loaded up and then stapeld them to the front for the first fitting test. After finding it OK I sewed them in place. Make sure to cross them in the back and to get the angles right so they conform to your beefy shoulders. Otherwise they will slip.

torsten <>
germany - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 16:19:19 (ZULU) (your host address:

On the "burlap" rope. I used a shitload of rope on my Benning ghillie and it worked like a charm for the time of year I was there. (Around Feb) It looked just like the dead grass that was prevelant then and with a light spraying of almond paint it looked like it had frost on it, which the stalk areas had.

Be careful though. SOme hemp type rope has a "sheen" to it. The stuff I used didnt hold paint very well. After every stalk it was almost all gone. It also tends to want to re-wrap itself and looked like a Rasta hair-do. After taking my ghillie out of a stuff sack I had to "tease" it to get it to fluff. I felt like a hair dresser.

But the rope is tough and lasts for awhile and doesnt absorb water like the burlap. The ropes we used were old climbing ropes from obstacle courses. Im pretty sure it was made out of organic material. Nylon rope is out!!! It goes blond on you. As it was my suit looked like a grizzly bear from behind.

Go here for a look at the suit. No comments on the website yet. It aint done!

Out here
Gooch <>
USA - Saturday, August 12, 2000 at 16:46:08 (ZULU) (your host address:

Maybe now that I have the "honey do-s" done for the day, I can get to work on the ghillie. Kent, that pic didn't do me much good, other than proving that the pic one has in ones mind is most often WAY off ;-) You got some pics of the suit or can you steer me to some? I wanna do it right the first time around. I'm doing most all of it straw colored, with some very light green (sage). A small amount of slightly darker green and some grey-green in there too. Should I forget the brown all together? It's pretty light out here.
Bravo <>
makin' ghillies and sippin' beer in the, USA - Sunday, August 13, 2000 at 03:41:10 (ZULU) (your host address:
Bill B,
Did you check out the sporting goods section of Wal-Mart while you were there? All the Wally Worlds around me are selling Real Tree burlap "Deer Blinds". If I remember right, it cost $15.00 for a roll of 54 inches by 12 feet. The price goes way down after deer season.

Big John <>
Short Creek, Ohio, USA - Sunday, August 13, 2000 at 04:04:24 (ZULU) (your host address:

GUys the bottom line on ghillies is to remember that there are two goals.

1. Break up the outline.
2. Blend with surroundings.

It is very easy to go from an outline of a guy in cammies to the outline of a chewbacka. Dont over do it. You can obtain the desired outline defeating effect with a minimum of garnish. A piece every 4-5 inches can do it to break up the outline.

When it comes to blending use natural camouflage. Use the veg that the AO presents to you. You know what a big burlap covered human looks like in optics? A pile of burlap!!! Use natural vegetation.

Next bottom line in case some of you missed this thread the last 200 times it has come up is that a perfect ghillie wont do you as much good as a well planned route and proper individual movement techniques. Guys have literally stalked NUDE and reached a firing position. I've had it done to me when on the OP and so have a lot of others. DUdes, you cant see through a tree trunk, boulder, side of a ditch etc.

Gooch <>
USA - Sunday, August 13, 2000 at 06:56:33 (ZULU) (your host address:

Out here in God's forsaken plains it's a bit lighter but varied much more than even "By God country" or what I've seen of it. Some of that great looking camo it really fine up close but at distances men look like men in Ninja suits. It's hard to get things too light out here too.
I have camo that looks zactly like Sagebrush up close but it is too dark farther out. Something to do with light reflection of course.
We have a nasty fetish out here for stalking pronghorns with sticks and must be closer than 75 yards. If you have the outline of a man your 5 miles from all the pronghorns real fast. That thing about them being curious is true but they have 8power sight at least and pretty soon they ain't curious about bow hunters except to see how many counties they can put between them and you. If the camo varies, say in light and pattern say one kind of hat one kind of shirt and a different pair of pants it seems to work better. Keep it all 3 shades of light if you can. MIxing cane (duck hunting) camo and fall leaf pants with a sage veil and a boonie hat with burlap stuck all over it seems to work as good as anything. This would probably be true of green shades too. That Jungle green out here is a visable as a blonde in a bikini. I must agree with Gooch on not overdoing the ghillie mop. IT works to just put it here and there. I took some of the walmart stuff and cut triange pieces about 3" ones and sewed the middle of the triangle to a 3X5 square and made panchos with a head hole in one end.
You can crawl with the thing like a turtle shell and just barely live through a 110 degree stalk with it. IT's much cooler than junk sewed on a sold cloth. When I'm bow hunting I hang the thing up to a low limb and shoot through the head hole. IT keeps the bugs out if you use it right.
Bill Rogers <>
USA - Sunday, August 13, 2000 at 14:41:13 (ZULU) (your host address:
Big John,

Yep, and I used it on the ghillie too. I dyed it, and then cut it into odd shapes then stitched it to the suit. Sort of looks like leaves. It is mostly "trial-and-error" to get it to look okay.

Bill B <>
ky, USA - Sunday, August 13, 2000 at 21:41:41 (ZULU) (your host address:

Relationship between distance, natural cover, and ghillie color is getting me cornfused.

What is the reasonable distance that one should stalk and still remain realitively invisible? If you have an open field such as Carlos did in the 500 yard shot he made at the genreal, was that related to the distance that he wanted to get to or the distance that he could remain concealed?

I went out in the cow pasture behind the house this afternoon and tried to imagine what I would be colored as to remain concealed. Since it is mostly tall grass and a few bushes[mostly combinations of sage and light green colors] I got really confused as to how I could make it through the woods to the pasture using a light color that would match the pasture.

Folks I can tell that this is one subject that I guess you have to be or have been there to understand. Next weekend going to put on the ghillie and try to get the girlfreind to spot me in the pasture.
Bolt <>
USA - Sunday, August 13, 2000 at 22:18:21 (ZULU) (your host address:

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