Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom

Ballistics - 308 loads and bullets:

Just remember, always put safety first.
DO NOT accept a load provided here, or anywhere else, without reserve.  Take into account that it may not be safe in YOUR rifle, or that there could have been a typing mistake.  Always refer to you reloading manuals, and if you afterwards JUST HAVE TO use somebody else's loads, always reduce by at least 10% and work up in YOUR rifle, under YOUR circumstances.

Back to balistics. 308 Rem 700, 1000yards +/- any one have any thoughts on the Lapua D46 FMJBT. (rebated boat tail) Is it any good or, should I use the 600 that I got cheap for shorter range practices? More over, what loads should I try? Previously posted was 45.5gr(Lake City case) or 46gr (civilian case) of Varget. It is going to be a long winter, give me some food for thought.

steve uhall <>
Gbg, Pa USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 02:45:52 (EST)

Forgot to include bullet weight. They are weighing out to 168.4. The load stated above was for a 168 match bullet. Did I mention that I want enough velocity to keep them supersonic past 1000yds. But that should be a given.

steve uhall <>
Gbg, Pa USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 02:51:02 (EST) 

That was me who posted the loads an Varget. You will have no problems staying supersonic with the loads listed. I have never shot the Lupua bullets but they would be worth a try, it seems like everything else of there's is top notch stuff. I can give you other loads and powders to try but depending on the brass and the barrel length you have you may be on the edge of going sub sonic at 1000yds.
If my memory serves me correctly you need to stay in the 2670fps range with the 168s to stay supersonic at 1000yds, maybe Scott or Rick can tell you for sure what it is (My gun's were 24" barrel's). The Varget will get you to 2750 with no pressure, it's a great powder. I'am getting 2800 out of 24" after market barrels.

Pat <>
USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 11:23:30 (EST) 


Tried to email you from work but my work mail acct. doesn't exist yet.
Was the D46s a one-time find or is somebody selling quantity? Also, I got a flyer from Sierra stating that they are going to market some of their more popular bullets in 500 lots that are molyed after the 1st of the year. When I get details and prices, I'll post.

Also, I've found that VV N135 worked pretty well w/ 168gr Sierras. Start w/ 40.0gr and work up in 1/2gr increments.Watch for pressure signs at 42.0 gr.

Also, VV N140 does pretty good. Start at 43.0 gr. N140. It seems to really shine w/ 175grMKs, however. Anyway, back to work...

Jeff A.

Jeff A. <>
at work in deep downtown Atlanta, political indian country, apparently), Ga USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 13:28:10 (EST) 

RE: Lapua bullets, Champion's Choice in Tennesse, 1-800-345-7179 or 1-615-793-4070, have some 6.5mm,7mm,308 and 338 bullets for sale. Bigger selection in 308 than anything else. They are definitely more expensive than the Sierra products. Are they better, Don't know?
Steve Uhall <>
GBG, Pa USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 19:02:49 (EST) 

Has anyone been able to safely load the 175 Match-King in 308 to 2800fps? This would have to make a dramatic difference in performance over the standard 2600 fps 168. My model 700 has a 26" barrel. If someone had load data and knew what the ballistic tables of this load was that would be very much appreciated by me and Im sure a lot of other enthusiast.
Thanks! Tom B.

Tom B. <>
Jupiter, Fl. USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 23:08:27 (EST) 

Tom B,
I have shot 175 bergers out of my .30 inch palma rifle with good results. I can't remember what the velocity was but I think it was around 2750fps. The barrel is a tight .298/3065 Krieger for shooting Sierra 155s and it didn't help with the pressure created by the long bearing surface of the 175s. I think a standard .30/308 would be better. Interesting thing was that it shot very well all the way out to 1000Yds but I could tell no difference as far as wind drift was concerned. I would be shooting right next to a guy with 155 Sierras, and I could tell no difference. This happened more than once. I went back to the Sierras after a season of shooting the bergers. They were less expensive and recoiled less.


ME USA - Friday, October 30, 1998 at 15:13:13 (EST) 

As being an enthusiatic sportman and a beginner at the gate of the Art: "Long Range Precission Shooting" . I have a new TIKKA Sporter 595. My application is purely to practice on paper to be efficient at 500 yards, may be ! I am looking for:

- Supplier information for .308 Win moly coated ammunition to break in my new rifle (from low to high ranges in cost).
- Supplier information for .308 Win. ammunition to practice (from low to high ranges in cost). I plan to purchase ammunition until I have a good understanding of reloading.


Nha Trang62
USA - Monday, November 02, 1998 at 14:32:47 (EST) 

Nha Trang,
Check out Black Hill's Ammo in Rapid City SD. They would have what you need. Sometimes he has reject ammo that is fine to shoot (Blemished) at a cheaper price for practice. If you need the address and can't find it in any shooting mag e.mail me.

Pat <mrbullet>
USA - Monday, November 02, 1998 at 16:30:49 (EST) 

There was an inquiry earlier about moly coated .308 ammunition. I highly recommend Hornady moly coated match grade 168 grain .308. Hornady does not have the name recognition of Sierra but their match grade ammo is of excellent quality. I have found it to be more consistent than the Black Hills ammo. It is available from Midsouth Shooters Supply (1-800-272-3000) for only $15.00 a box, which is also cheaper than Black Hills. I spoke to a Hornady rep who told me that the bullet used in their moly match is the same bullet used for their Tactical Application Police (TAP). This bullet has been tested in ballistic gelatin and the Hornady rep is supposed to send me this ballistic gelatin test data. I will pass a summary of the test results along to the Roster when I get it.

Jack McC.
Jack McC. <>
Lawrenceville, GA USA - Wednesday, November 04, 1998 at 00:28:14 (EST) 

Jack McC.
Your right on the Hornady match ammo they are really going to make a run at the market. I just talked to the head of the Patrol's Tact Team and when they were training down in Nebraska they tried Hornady's new line fo ammo and was esp. impressed with the bullets performance in the ballistic jell compared to other round's they were using. They also said the accuracy was as good as their Federal match and in some rifles it was better. I found it interesting that this is a different bullet than the A-Max, it looks the same (Blistic Tip) but is not as long and thin as the 168 A-Max, which by the way will rip ragged holes in most 308's i've shot it in, but it can not be loaded to mag length because of it's long length so I have not considered it a good round for the tactical shooting game but accuracy looks to be excellent and from it's looks should fly forever.

Pat <>
USA - Wednesday, November 04, 1998 at 10:33:06 (EST) 

I made a rookie mistake, I bought Federal Match MAGNUM primers. Can I still use these with a lesser load of Varget with military brass and Sierra Matchking 168gr? Anyone have a good starting off point, or do I need to save these primers for my 300 Win/Mag, if i get one.

Tyson <>
Leander, TX USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 02:45:02 (EST) 

Tyson; I will post this here with some invitation for others to comment if they have different experiences. I have had a bit of trouble igniting VARGET in the .300 Win Mag with 168 bullets (not that larger weights would not be worse). This leads me (along with observing that .308 varget 46grains varies a bit in velocity in my .308. This leads me to think you might be better off with the Magnums as primers. Actually the variation doesn't translate into worse groups untill you get way out there in range. (Beyond 500yards)Something I can't quite explain cause it should affect it before that.
(charges of VARGET are too small for .300 win mag for bullets larger than 168 grain and will likely result in hangfires and dangerous operation.) If I were you I would drop the charge back a half grain or so and work back up. I doubt you will have anyproblems with the magnums as far as accuracy is concerned.

B. Rogers <>
USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 10:05:25 (EST) 

From what I have seen the more uniform burning loads seem to be the ones where the powder burning rate allows almost filling the case. That makes sense - at least to me - because small powder charges might tend to 'flop' around in the case and burn erratically according to how it happened to distributed at the time you pull the trigger.

Ken :)

Ken (NoVa Shooter) <>
Nokesville, Va USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 10:43:04 (EST) 

I guess in my fit of confusion last night I forgot to mention the magnum primers were for a .308 Rem 40-XB, using military once fired, Varget and 168gr Matchkings. Are magnum primers going to overpressure with even reduced loads? I load for pistol action shooting (USPSA) and an AR-15, but this is my first Long-Range/"High Power" rifle.

Tyson <>
Leander, TX USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 12:15:26 (EST) 

You can use the mag primers for your 308 with Varget. Do like Bill
said and back off one half grain. You may not get a load that is quite as accurate but they will work fine if you can"t trade them. I would not use Varget in a 300WM I feel it's to fast of a powder for anything other than the real light bullet's.( 130 and below.)

Pat <>
USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 18:37:41 (EST) 

Ken you are right as a rule they do. And we all like a full case if we can get it. VARGET is kind on an exception. It is a very forgiving powder in a lot of respects. I had a load of the stuff in 30-06 that would leave enough air to keep a mouse alive for a month and it still outshot a full case of 4350 so go figure. The fact is that Pat is right about using it in the .300 win mag and the 168 grain takes a bit of faith and sure nuff magnum primers to ignite it but darned if it don't outshoot most other (better suited to the case)loads I've tried at about 3150'. I use VARGET for .223 .243 .25-06 30-06 .308 and .300 win mag. It is real convienent to use just one powder but don't think I haven't tried Many others it is just the only powder I can do this with and get good or excellent accuracy with it.

B. Rogers <brogers@elkhart>
USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 20:48:59 (EST) 

Mr. Rogers,
I am directing this question to you but anyone can jump in. Will accuracy suffer, if one were to load 175 grain Matchkings or Berger 175's for a rifle with a 1 in 12" twist. The second part of the question is,can a safe load be developed that would give velocity in the range of 2750fps with a 26" barrel using the 175 grain bullet.

Tom B. <>
Jupiter, Fl. USA - Monday, November 30, 1998 at 19:14:02 (EST) 

You can shoot 175s with no problem in the 1-12 twist barrel's. I shot the Berger VLDs in mine and they shot great!! I Think you could get close to the 2750 in the 26" barrel depending on how fast your barrel is. My Hart would push 168s at 2850 using Varget and it was only a 25" barrel.

Pat <>
USA - Tuesday, December 01, 1998 at 00:31:24 (EST) 

Tom B. sorry I didn't get to your question. Ole Pat is quicker on the draw and right on the target. I agree totally. The 1/12 will handle that range of bullets at those speeds real well.

B.Rogers <>
USA - Tuesday, December 01, 1998 at 01:20:50 (EST) 

Hi all,
I recently tried some test reloads and thought I'd share my findings.
43.0 grains of Varget under 175 Sierras resulted in 1.5 moa. Not very good. 42.0 grains of Varget under 168 Hornady AMAX. .75 moa. Much better. Rifle is Savage 110 FP. Does anyone have a good load for the Sierras? I thought they were supposed to be the cats meow. Maybe my rifle just doesn't like 'em.

Roy out
Roy <>
CS, CO USA - Wednesday, December 02, 1998 at 11:36:53 (EST) 

Roy that load is a bit lighter than what I shoot so I wonder if you have been on beyond that? Savage has a smaller chamber overall than the Remington and is throated which would pressure up a bit sooner but I have not had too good luck with smaller charges. The can has the load that I use with 168 grain Sierra Match kings. Also how many shots in the groups?

B.Rogers <>
USA - Wednesday, December 02, 1998 at 11:59:45 (EST) 

B. Rodgers
This is my first whack at these loads so I started out low. So you say I should go a little hotter? Interesting thing about the tighter chambers, I had several rounds that were difficult to chamber an:45 me that flat out refused to go in. Yet when I checked the case dimensions they were all in spec! WTF OVER!! Do I need small base dies? For a bolt gun? The groups were all five round. The Amax group was a nice round five shot .75 moa and the Sierra was opened up to the 1.5 I mentioned earlier. Cases are Win and Rem, primers are Win Std. All cases were trimmed, flash hole deburred, etc. I would like to get the Sierras to shoot so I can start embarrasing myself on the 1000yd line.

Roy out.
Roy <>
CS, CO USA - Wednesday, December 02, 1998 at 12:40:58 (EST) 

Bill's right, Ihave never had any luck with the light loads using Varget. When I tried to back off my group's opened up from .5 to just over and inch. This may be your trouble also. Try 46grs and maybe Federal primers, that sure works for me.

Pat <>
USA - Wednesday, December 02, 1998 at 17:46:22 (EST) 

To Roy: Amax bullets
I have the same experience as you with the Amax bullets. I was disapointed at first try until I started seating them way out there.
Right now I am seating them out to 2.925 OAL in my 308 and I still havent touched the rifleing. These are very long bullets, about .2 longer than the 168 Sierras but the shape of the olvige allows them to be seated out much farther than normal. These Amax bullets shot so well for me that I am going to change my magazine well to 3.0 inches to accomodate them.

Steve <>
S.C.D.H., Ojio USA - Wednesday, December 02, 1998 at 18:23:47 (EST) 

Berger Bullets: Anyone out there have any experience with Berge VLD moly bullets for the the 308 168 grainers. Are they as good and accurate as the 168 and 175 grainers from Sierra, and are they worth the extra $4.00 a box one would pay for them. I know Berger bullets have an exceptional reputation in the benchrest circles. Just wanted to get some people;s opinions on these bullets.

Al Ostapowicz <>
RAVAGD, WEARY, AND EXPLOITED in the Grand Republic of , Ohio USA - Friday, December 11, 1998 at 00:32:33 (EST) 


I'm playing with the 175 Bergers right now using my now standard load of 44.0 Varget. So far the group about the same as Sierra 175's at 100 yds. ctc avg .670" Somebody? Somewhere? told me that I would not really see the difference until past 300 yards. But I'll wait till its warmer before attempting shooting farther than I can wee, uh see.
Have you seen the Hornady 178gr National Matches (stock #80631)? They are truly bad to the bone dude!

BIG-CITY, BY-GAWD USA - Friday, December 11, 1998 at 23:23:05 (EST) 

I have a parker-Hale M85 in .308 with a Schimdt & Bender PM10 x 42 scope. I am a experienced hand loade and would be greatful for a suitable loading date for the above combination. I think the 'scope is calibrated for a 168grn bullet.


David H.
David K. Hart <>
Ingleby Barwick, Teesside England - Saturday, December 12, 1998 at 19:36:50 (EST) 

David H (UK)

Welcome and, A very Nice rig sir!

Go to the "Gun-Links" and bring up Vihtavouri You can download their info for .308 Win. (7.62x51mm). The N-540 and N-550 powders will give the best results. Try RWS or Federal primers whichever you can get cheaper across the pond.
Hodgdons Varget powder is very popular with many S/C regulars because of very good consistency and replicable results through most US made rifles. Start at 43.0 grains and slowly work up as per usual CAREFUL handloading techniques.
Feed us what projectiles, cases, reloading dies, and the intended ranges you're planning on using the P-H at for more data?

RAIN-CITY, BY-GAWD USA - Sunday, December 13, 1998 at 10:59:08 (EST) 

Anybody know the physical differences between the .30 cal Hornady 180 A-MAX and the 178 NM A-MAX... (NM=National Match)
Paul "Pablito" Coburn <>
USA - Monday, January 04, 1999 at 13:00:16 (EST) 

Gotta mount board with Berger 175 VLD, Sierra 175, Hornady 178 gr. National Match & 168 A-Max sitting atop my monitor. The A-Maxes got that red synthetic tip and the National Matches have a very curious tip ogive/meplat that kinda rounds over on the edges in a manner that I can only describe as similar to a .22 rimfire.
For a lack of better words the 178NM is more streamlined/elongated through the area between the body and meplat but appears to share the same angle for the boat tail as the A-Max. So far I've found they DO SHOOT in my limited testing over the past few months w/ Varget. Like I said a couple weeks ago, BAD TO THE BONE!

WARM INSIDE, bY-GaWd USA - Monday, January 04, 1999 at 22:11:22 (EST) 

peteR: I've read your posts about the Hornady 178 NM bullets. I was curious about the weight of Varget you were using. I've noticed in all the reloading manuals they say to stay under 42.5 but I have been pushing it up to the 44.5 grain mark without any signs of pressure. I haven't been able to chronograph these loads. Anyone else experienced with upper weights of Varget? I'm still waiting for the 178 grainers from Hornady to get to my front door and then I will be able to put them through their paces. Any experienc with 4064 powder? How about with the 175 grain Sierra MKs. 4064 doesn't seem to be quite so forgiving as Varget.

Al Ostapowicz <>
Shrunk up to the size of peas in blistering cold, Ohio USA - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 02:06:38 (EST) 

I'm at 44.0 grains of Varget with just about everything under the sun in .308. I carefully worked up, as you did, with all projectiles and at 44.0 gr. my rifle just seems at its best.
With the 178 gr. National Matches I'm just begining to seem a very slight amount of flattening of the primers (at 85degrees F) and the groups seem pretty good considering my often spastic ability.
I use the same charge weight with the Sierra 175's and am getting real good results for a non 5-R factory barrel out to 200 yards which is the max. available to me.

Other powders are not a consideration to me at this time, Varget is less temp. sensitive and meters great through my geriatric uniflo. If you have not hit their web page (via Links page) do so and look at the testing they did with regards to temp and pressures. Great Stuff.

If I do go to another powder it will be VihtaVuori N-500/550 series its the only possible alternative according to my research.

YAWN-CITY, bY-GaWd USA - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 09:14:28 (EST) 

Have "max'd" out at 45 grs Varget with 168 and 175 moly'd Sierras. 'Course both barrels and chambers are a bit "tight" so that load works for me. In another shooters Rem 308PSS, we have found that 43.7 gives him the accuracy out to 500. Whatever works for you !!

Will <>
USA - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 13:40:16 (EST) 

Will: 43.7 sound like a good compromise on the Varget powder. Still a littl eunsure about the 4064 and pushing it past published Sierra limits.

Al Ostapowicz <>
Everything is frozen up here in -2 degree , Ohio USA - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 16:42:32 (EST) 

A pet load of mine is FED GM 308 case, FED 210M primer, 44.6 IMR 4064, 168 Berger VLD moly, OAL of 2.8410. Out of a stock 20" REM 700 mountain rifle barrel I get 3/4 MOA at 2635fps. +/- 7fps. Out of a 24" match grade Krieger barrel I get 1/2 or better MOA at 2710 +/- 10fps. All components have been uniformed, trimmed, and weighted. Velocities are averages of averages chronographed mostly at temps of 75 degrees below 500 feet. Rounds have only been fired to 300 yds but appear to be consistent. I asked previously if anyone has played with 30-378 WBY loads. I've tried H1000, RL22 and IMR7828 all with 180 gr Nosler silver tips and FED 215M primers. Best group (5/8") is with 7828. Has anybody used 50BMG? Since this is special order and only comes in 5lb containers I don't want to waste time and money. The rifle is not a stock WBY. Its a MarkV action with a canjar trigger and a 27" heavy Shilen match grade barrel with fluting and brake, bedded in a McMillan McHale stock with US Optics scope, rings and mount. Weight is about 13-14 lbs. Thanks..Tony
Tony Y.
Iselin, NJ USA - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 23:05:54 (EST) 
I haven't played with the 178s yet I have 168 and 155 A-Maxs but I haven't had a chance to play around with them either. Jr. delt me out of my "Tack driver" and it was a great test bed, it shot everything well. The 168s look like 190s I know you would never be able to load mag length and touch the rifling. They look like they would fly forever and I've heard good things about them.

Pat <>
USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 07:55:32 (EST) 

Hi Folks, was going to load some .308 and was wondering what the other reloaders on the list were using for the 168 gr Math bullet. ANy tips?


Justin <>
CT, USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 01:36:39 (ZULU) 

.308 reloaders may want to try this load if you are looking for an inexpensive bullet. Hornady 190gr. btsp....Win.brass.....BR-2 primers
....40.0gr IMR 4895 **MAX. LOAD** It consistantly shoots under .5MOA aat 100 yards and has shot as small as .269"

Eager Pup <>
B.C., Canada - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 03:15:50 (ZULU) 

For the .308 and 168 match bullet... "Classic" powders for this combination are H-4895, IMR4895, IMR-4064, Varget, and AA-2520. 41.5gr to 42gr of either of 4895's are such a standard match load, I'm comfortable sending it over the web... it is not a max load, and will shoot through anything, including M14's and M21's... for the other's... go buy a loading book... when you take loading data over the web, you don't now the source.

Paul "Pablito" Coburn <>
USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 16:13:29 (ZULU)

Hey gang! I love this site. I also wish people would get back onto shooting topics, though. I have a reloading question for you all. I have a Robar SR-60 I bought about two years ago. I have a Leupold Tactical Vari X 6.5x20 Law Enforcement scope with mil-dot reticule. I'm currently using Federal Match Grade Gold Medal ammo for it. I was wondering if anybody has reloaded any combinations they find more accurate at ranges of say 100-300 yards. Hey, if you have something great at longer ranges, add that too! Just looking to eek out the best accuracy possible. Thanks...

Jim S. <>
Pittsburgh, Pa, USA - Wednesday, January 20, 1999 at 20:54:58 (ZULU) 

Jim S,
It will depend on your rifle but a good combination for the 168s is 45 to 46 grs of Varget this will be hotter than the match load but in most applications is deadly accurate. Another great load is 44grs of N-140. This load will be real close to the match load in velocity. I like the Varget for long range work because of the increase in velocity. Hope this helps.

Pat <>
USA - Thursday, January 21, 1999 at 14:23:22 (ZULU) 

Sarge looks and asks:
Anyone used N-140 with the 175 MK's? My local shop didn't even know they exsisted and I've got him to order a box so I can try them. I'm looking for a place to start. Now with the 168's 41 grs. of N-140 is more accurate than I am! Thanks!

Sarge <>
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, January 30, 1999 at 19:55:20 (ZULU) 

Jeff A / MRBullet,

Can ya help out the Sarge'ster?

I've become a "Varget Snob" which I would highly recomend in doses of 43.4 (worked up to) 44.0 grains at about 2.814" OAL. Well at least that works for me.

Chao for Now!

bIG-cITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Saturday, January 30, 1999 at 22:06:40 (ZULU) 

I used 44grs of N140 in my Hart barreled 308 and it shot consistant .3s with the 168s. I never got a chance to try the 175s My boy wound up with the rifle. I have found that N140 is a great powder for accuracy but I like PeteR use Varget, because of the velocity and the accuracy. I used Varget with some Berger 175 VLDs and they shot around 2" at 400yds but the 155 Palma shot better. Hope this helps.

Pat <>
USA - Sunday, January 31, 1999 at 04:41:16 (ZULU) 

Sarge, peteR, mrbullet, anyone! Is it just me or does the rem700police just not like lighter bullets? I tried some 147 fmjbt on for size and got exactly that, SIZE. I thought that these bullets were ok for shorter range ie 300 meters or less, but this just will not work. 168 MK did well with the same loads, .4 to.7. Are these 147's typical lowest bidder stuff or what? Try 155 Palma's????

scott <>
wa, USA - Sunday, January 31, 1999 at 07:28:17 (ZULU) 

Longline: This is a wild guess, but you did not load machine gun bullets? They are 147gn and as such, quantity not quality is the standard.

Ed <>
ROK - Sunday, January 31, 1999 at 13:28:47 (ZULU) 


I think the rifling twist is a little too slow (Ron N?) for 147's. I had da same results with PMC generics through my 700P. The 168's shoot great through it, and so far the 175's shoot even better at the close ranges I shoot.


BIG,BIG-CITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Sunday, January 31, 1999 at 13:38:55 (ZULU) 

Scott@longline; Probably not the best bullet you can get those FMJ's. It has to do with the way they are poured from the base instead of the nose and then crimped. Try a 150 grain Hornady spire in there (hunting bullet) or one of the others Like Sierra or Speer but I've had real good luck with the Hornady.(not be be confused with the Hornady 168 match that I didn't get to shoot). The PSS's I've had didn't like anything but big groups but I think I got a couple bad barrels or something. I can't explain why but I had to abandon them for VS's to get the groups down. There is no earthly reason why I can think of except that they didn't do the job. All my VSSF;s shot better than the best of the PSS;s. I loved the stocks and everything else about them. I shot a .223 VS the other day that did about 1.5 moa so there is no rule that they shoot fantastic either. A couple of .220 swift's weren't anything to brag about in VS. A friend had a .300 wmag Sendero Blue matte. that would put them in the shade and I have a .300 sendero SSF that also eats their lunch. Gee's just realized I've tried a lot of stuff. 22-250's in VSSF shoot fantastic as do .223 VSSF and .308 VSSF. .308VS seems a winner/ 300 Sendero and 25=06 are usually good too. This is all out of the box stuff mentioned here. IF I didn't mention it here I haven't tried it as far as the modern HS stocked 700's goes. Where do I send my $5.00 fine for whinning?
B.Rogers <>
USA - Sunday, January 31, 1999 at 13:47:02 (ZULU) 
Bill's right, the construction of the 147 really suffers when it comes to accuracy even the 173 match is nothing to right home about. If you want to shoot 150s try Speers 150grsp, in my VS they shot .5s and the 155 Palma will be even better. Some of the lighter bullets like the 130 ro 125s shoot fantastic out to 300 yds so you may also want to check them out. Hopw this helps.
Pat <>
USA - Sunday, January 31, 1999 at 17:07:26 (ZULU) 
Has anyone had any experience loading IMI match brass for the 308?? My boy has my Hart barreled 308 and he has the IMI Match brass and is loading 45grs of Varget with 168 Sierras and blew the primer out on one round and the rest were leaving "Scrape" marks on the back of the brass from extraction. I used this same load in both Laupa and LC match brass and had no pressure signs at all. I am stumped as to what could be his problem, does anyone have any ideas??? Bullet is seated to just "Kiss" the lands.

Pat <>
USA - Tuesday, February 02, 1999 at 17:16:02 (ZULU) 


I'm currently using Talon Brass (IMI match) and thats exactly why I'm at 44.0 grains of Varget, began to see early pressure signs. Back off to 43.0 and work up (I know its a pain dude). You neck sizing or full length resizing? Tight Chamber? Reamed or Turned necks?
'member what I said a couple months ago w/ Varget n 175's.........?


BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Tuesday, February 02, 1999 at 18:27:08 (ZULU) 

When Shawn was up here this summer before we went to Wyoming we loaded some of his IMI brass and I noticed then that the powder was nearly up in the neck with 45grs so we backed it down to 44grs and shot it across the cronograph and it was slow in the 2650 range and with 45grs in the LC or Lupua we were getting 2775 in his VS and 2800fps in mine. With 44grs (in the case) the IMI looks the same as the LC does with 45grs but the velocity is sure down even if the pressure is up. This leads me to believe that there internal demensions must be smaller than even the LC Match brass. Thanks for the comeback.
Pat <>
USA - Tuesday, February 02, 1999 at 20:21:21 (ZULU) 

Also, I will back off approx 0.5 to 1.0 gr on IMI or LC cases compared to Win. or Lapua (ie. 43 gr N140 and 44 gr N140 for a 175) only because it appears that the IMI and LC cases have less volumn. I've read this a couple of places as well.

Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 00:10:59 (ZULU) 

Hey all,
Does anyone have any experience loading the Hornady 178 HPBT Match. I picked up a box the other day but cannot find any data on it. I did check the Hornady web page. Also, 168 AMax with a lot # from '97. These bullets are quite a bit longer and have a larger plastic tip than the newer lots. Anyone know what's up with that?

Roy out
Roy Thomason <>
CS, CO, USA - Tuesday, February 09, 1999 at 19:22:23 (ZULU) 


Hornady 178s. I just started testing the 178s. Mine are moly coated so i you're shooting non-molyd , I'd decrease the charge at least 1 -1.5gr to be on the safe side.

Anyway, I've loaded 43.0gr N140 in LC-90 cases, Rem 9 1/2 primers and seated bullet to give comparator measurement on 3.225" (this number may be irrelavant since comparator inserts probably vary). This does give an OAL of approx. 2.810" which will feed in a Rem 700n SA mag.This gave good accuracy out to 300 yd. I plan to try 44.0 gr N140 w/ some variation in seating depth just for the hell of it. So far , that's all I've done to date. Plan to try Varget, N135 and N150 just to see. If the bullets are not molyed, then I would suggest starting at 42.5 gr N140 if you use that powder; increase in 0.5 gr increments up to 44.0 gr and watch for pressure signs.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, GA, USA - Tuesday, February 09, 1999 at 23:41:48 (ZULU) 

How them Hornady 178's shooting guys?

Jeff A: VARGET dude, everything counts in 43.9 gr amounts. (non-LC/IMI). What bushing did ya go with for .308's?

BIG-CITY, bY-gAWd, USA - Wednesday, February 10, 1999 at 11:53:01 (ZULU) 

I take bushings to mean the neck size bushing. So, for WW cases, .331; and for LC/IMI/Lapua: .334. Body size all to "0" headspace, then run thru bushing w/ case lube still on. Don't moly necks before necksize unless unless major tumble afterwards. Will vary the hell out of neck tension. If this ain't what you mean, well, then I'll get my medication adjusted!!

Haven't tried Varget w/ 308 for 178s.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Thursday, February 11, 1999 at 00:07:16 (ZULU) 

From all the data I can find, there isn't much difference in powder loads between 168's and 175's, some , but not alot. SOOOOoooo... anyone pull Factory 168's and then reload moly 175's with the factory powder ???? This was brought up in a discussion a few days ago, got my own ideas but want some other opinions !!!
Will <>
Home of 2nd secession, Just Kidding , USA - Saturday, February 13, 1999 at 06:44:13 (ZULU) 
I haven't pulled 168's and replaced them with 175's, but when working up loads, I load the same powder charge with both, and pressure signs show up at the same load... does this help?
Pablito <>
USA - Saturday, February 13, 1999 at 16:01:34 (ZULU) 

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